In the present day’s visitor on the Area of interest Pursuits podcast is former Penny Hoarder govt and profitable enterprise proprietor Alexis Grant.
Alexis began her profession in journalism and launched her first enterprise, a content material advertising and marketing company, in 2010. A short time later, the company obtained acquired by the non-public finance model ‘The Penny Hoarder (sure, that one), the place she turned the third worker chargeable for content material operations.
Throughout the chat, Alexis shares her ideas on how her journalism background has helped her content material writing. As well as, she talks about going from a flat newspaper writing tone to at least one that is extra suited to the net area.
Alexis tells Jarod (our host) a couple of facet undertaking she had within the background. Because of leaving ‘The Penny Hoarder’ in 2019 and now armed with extra time, Alexis dusted it off and focused on enhancing it.
The ‘Write Life’ (the undertaking), was a weblog for writers. She talks about what she did to get it to rank higher in the major search engines and the way she elevated site visitors by round 80% to 460k pageviews a month.
Lastly, we speak about her present web site, ‘They Bought Acquired.’
Alexis talks about the way it happened, what the web site does and how one can profit from the positioning.
Different issues mentioned throughout the interview:
- The story behind the ‘Penny Hoarder’ buying her company
- Progress methods
- Headlines and why they’re so vital
- Her ideas on having a separate individual publish the articles to WordPress — not the writers
- Scaling content material and techniques used at The Penny Hoarder
- Creating checklists for the content material crew
- Coaching your crew
- search engine optimisation ways
- Updating outdated content material
- Why she left the Penny Hoarder
- Repurposing, redirecting, and mixing content material after an audit
Alexis has a wealth of expertise, information, and experience. She has labored for some of the important web sites round and constructed up profitable companies — it is a pleasure to listen to her story.
As all the time, sit again, get pleasure from and take notes.
LINKS AND RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THE PODCAST INTERVIEW:
This Episode is Sponsored by: Ahrefs & Surfer search engine optimisation
Watch the total interview:
Learn the total transcription:
Jared: Welcome to the area of interest pursuits podcast at this time, we have now Alexis Grant with us from “They obtained acquired” which we will speak quite a bit about, however earlier than we dive in Alexis, welcome to the.
Alexis: Yeah, thanks for having me.
Jared: Yeah. This one’s gonna be actually enjoyable. I, you may have an exquisite, you made it simple to arrange an agenda for at this time’s at this time’s interview.
, it was so many issues to have a look at it. So many issues to speak about and so many alternative successes and use instances that you’ve alongside the way in which. I do not need to bury the lead, however why do not you carry us updated on a few of your previous and your work expertise and your profession and, and the way you have how you have gotten to, the place you have gotten
to.
Alexis: Certain. Yeah. I’ve documented alongside quite a bit alongside the way in which. Trigger I have been running a blog since like 2008 and I nonetheless attempt to find time for that now, particularly when there’s like a giant milestone that I do know I need to look again at a 12 months or two years from now. And it is also actually useful to love, have the ability to ship somebody, somebody like.
A hyperlink to one thing that claims, oh, that is how I did it. And, and, and you will get a extremely good perception that method. So my background, yeah, I obtained my profession in I began my profession in journalism. I used to be on the Houston Chronicle after which U S information. And. Round 2010. I began, it was the primary enterprise. I began my very own enterprise.
It was a content material advertising and marketing company and I kinda obtained bit by the bug of like, I simply actually loved working my very own enterprise, which I hadn’t anticipated. Like I by no means anticipated to try this. And I feel what, what occurred there first was I used to be. I launched an e book and simply noticed how that labored. That was like my first foray into it.
After which ended up rising a content material advertising and marketing company. We ran blogs for different companies. That firm was acquired by a private finance model referred to as the penny hoarder. So I went in-house on the penny hoarder as a 3rd worker and I constructed the content material operations. After which in 2019, I left that job, partly as a result of we had been dwelling in Florida with my household.
We needed to get again to an space the place we might be nearer to trails and mountains. And simply, I used to be simply actually concerned about working my very own enterprise once more. So I I’ve performed two issues since then. I first I picked up a website that I had began beforehand, which we are able to speak about referred to as the best life is a content material website for writers the best life.
W R I T E. So I picked that up. Once I left the penny hoarder, it had been form of. On autopilot whereas I used to be there as a result of I did not have a lot time to work on it, however I picked it up principally for enjoyable. Trigger I needed to play with it. I actually obtained into the search engine optimisation of that website at that cut-off date, which I do know a number of your viewers would admire.
And I ended up promoting that website final 12 months, so a couple of 12 months in the past and I did that largely to essentially unlock my time so I might choose up a brand new undertaking. Trigger I felt like. That website. I began that website in 2013. I used to be form of simply uninterested in it and needed to attempt one thing new. So let’s have a look at about six months in the past I began engaged on a brand new model referred to as they obtained acquired and that is what I am working now.
And it is a media website. And the cool factor is I get to make use of my media abilities from, you recognize, that is kinda my background and what I am, what I am good at, however I am making use of it to a brand new area of interest. Firm acquisitions. So I am taking a ache level that I had after I went via my very own two gross sales and attempting to show folks what they should know for his or her first sale.
Jared: Oh, okay. My solely concern is that we’re not going to maintain this to underneath an hour. I really feel like I might get requested so many questions. What an superior story. He glossed over the penny hoarder as if it is just a few some title. No, one’s heard of it. It is like a emblematic title in actually the web site creation area and the content material area facet.
Simply congratulations on all of your success. I feel it is value pausing and simply what a storied background you may have. It is, it is an actual deal with to have, you recognize,
Thanks. It is enjoyable
to speak about it. Yeah. So going again to journalism, I am curious, as a result of I feel the general public who’re web site creators, who’re content material creators, who write on and publish, you recognize, who revealed content material, they do not have a journalism background.
I am simply, I possibly needed to kick off by asking. What issues did you study out of your journalism background or what experiences from journalism do you suppose had been probably the most influential and being profitable as a content material creator? Going ahead with your individual initiatives and your individual web sites
Alexis: a lot, truthfully, it was such an relevant relevant diploma.
Trigger I, I went, I obtained a liberal arts diploma for undergrad, which is actually not particular. After which I went to J college for grad college. In order that’s one thing I might really use on the planet and yeah, it is, it is only a actually relevant training for one. It helps me suppose via. The ethics round sharing content material.
And I really suppose that that is one thing that I carry to a number of media companies that not everybody is considering essentially who’s rising a media enterprise, particularly if they arrive from the media facet or come from the enterprise facet and they do not know media. So it is all the time actually prime of thoughts for me to consider how can we keep on with excessive requirements by way of efficacy.
Issues easy. Like I am all the time attributing. If you happen to hear one thing and also you need to, you need to reshare it, the place did you hear it from? And linking again to that individual in order that the credit score goes to the best place, but additionally your cowl your individual again. Trigger you are, you are repeating this undeniable fact that another person had collected.
When you possibly can see if somebody desires an instance of that, we do that actually closely on. They obtained acquired it additionally. Effectively, I can let you know one factor that it did not assist me with, which is a number of journalists. Proper in a extremely boring voice. And so it has been attention-grabbing for me as a result of I like working with journalists, however I discover it is an actual thoughts shift for lots of us to shift from like writing a information leads, into making one thing attention-grabbing and enjoyable that folks need to learn on the internet.
Yeah, that is attention-grabbing. Yeah. So generally, and I’ve heard lots of people who run media companies say it is really higher to rent writers who should not, who haven’t got a journalism background as a result of they, they’re a little bit extra artistic of their writing. I are inclined to search for individuals who have form of, form of each a mixture of each.
However generally they’re arduous to.
Jared: That is an attention-grabbing level as a result of I really feel like I, after I, I am not a journalism background to say the least, but when I am writing a bit of content material, I’ll typically look to a extra journalistic supply for headline examples and inspiration, as a result of I really feel like folks in information do such job.
Charming headlines. And so it is attention-grabbing to listen to you speak in regards to the juxtaposition of possibly the, the precise writing itself could be a little bit flatter than somebody who does not have that journalism
Alexis: background. Even the headlines too, is like, I feel headlines are actually an artwork and a number of writers which can be nice at writing articles.
They, they are not nice at writing headlines and, you recognize, newspapers, even after I was in 2005, after I was at a newspaper, the, the, the author did not write the headline. It was like the author writes the story after which the editor writes the headline or any person else who’s that.
Jared: That makes all of the sense on the planet, however I by no means knew that.
Alexis: Yeah. So it was a giant shift, I feel, for lots of journalists to return into this world the place, like, not solely do it’s important to write a headline, however you additionally must do. Type of catchy.
Jared: Sure. I feel in search engine optimisation, you recognize, actually while you’re writing an article, that is possibly you bend extra in direction of the search engine optimisation focus, these, the search optimized focus.
I imply, I am responsible of it, however you have a tendency to simply say, oh, that is the title. Let’s have a look at. And let’s simply make it the principle key phrase, you recognize, and it falls flat possibly. Or do you suppose that that is
Alexis: technique for all of the websites I’ve ever run? We all the time have two T two headlines. There’s one headline. That is going to indicate on the web site and there is one headline.
That is gonna present to go looking it. And clearly there are type of comparable as a result of you do not need somebody to click on on one thing and search after which be upset after they get to the precise article. However I feel even when there is a tiny share of people that really feel that method, it is nonetheless useful to have like a extremely catchy headline.
I name it catchy. That is form of like a. I am positive. There’s a lot of good methods to, to explain it, however like actually I will name it. What is the catchy headline and that is the headline that goes on the homepage and it goes on social media. At generally you need to have a unique headline for various social channels, however for those who’re attempting to maintain it easy, you may use that very same catchy one from the headline for social channels after which a unique one.
For Google
Jared: sensible. That is nice. That is nice. We’ll speak in regards to the technique of being part of penny hoarder from mainly the bottom up. I imply, you mentioned you had been employed two or three. What had been your roles there and, and, and kinda how lengthy had been you there? What had been you chargeable for when you had been serving to that model?
Alexis: So, properly, I began working with Kyle a founder in 2014. He was really a consumer of my content material company. So we had been delivering, we had been doing the content material for the positioning earlier than he acquired my firm. And that is, that is what led to that. Like, we served a lot of purchasers, however he like a 12 months in the past. And to us working collectively was one, he ended up shopping for my firm in order that we might all myself and quite a lot of folks from my crew, all of us went into the corporate.
It was an acqui-hire. In order that’s after they take the crew, you’ll get into the corporate. So we might focus purely on rising the penny hoarder. So we let go of all of our different purchasers and did not do this anymore. So yeah, my, my function actually modified all through the years there. I imply, initially. Nearly the complete time.
I used to be actually targeted on rising the crew and placing collectively, like I’ve a really operations targeted mine. So I obtained to place collectively a number of the infrastructure for hiring and, and rising the content material crew in a sustainable method. However then additionally putting in the infrastructure for the precise content material.
So like, what are the techniques are creating content material? How can we make it? How can we distribute it? How does the engine work and the way can we hold doing that? Once we hold including extra folks.
Jared: What are a few of the, what are some suggestions you may have the ability to share for people who find themselves combating you recognize, content material manufacturing at scale?
I am positive there’s scale. Perhaps it, relying on order could be a little bit totally different than the size that a person website proprietor may need. However within the final, I ponder how lots of the operations that you just talked, you talked about operationally targeted that you’re like, what are some methods or some suggestions you may give to folks that might assist them with, with scaling
Alexis: present?
Yeah, I feel regardless of whether or not you may have just a few posts every week or a number of posts every week, you need to have a system for getting these posts via the pipeline. So 4, they obtained acquired proper now, for instance, we’re solely aiming for about three to 5 posts. It is a place to begin, however we nonetheless have a extremely strong, what I name it as is the modifying or the content material queue.
So what occurs is, is, you recognize, the piece of content material that goes into the queue somebody writes it, then the standing modifications to prepared for modifying. Then it modifications. Perhaps it has to return to the editor or again to the author for edits then again to the editor. After which what occurs there subsequent is, you recognize, it is prepared for WordPress.
It is revealed. It must go to the publication. So having a extremely strong listing of what is each step that every piece of content material has to undergo and, and shifting every bit via that pipeline, that method nothing will get via.
Jared: Let me ask you your private opinion on this. Do you suppose it is higher to have?
Trigger we have interviewed folks on the podcast of late who’ve very segmented roles, in order that they’re writers, proper. And so they simply write their editors edit. They only edit. They even have publishers who simply format. Add photographs and inner hyperlinks and exterior hyperlinks and publish articles. They’ve, they’ve folks, they’ve graphic design, possibly any person who does a graphic design for it.
In order that they have very segmented roles. And once more, this might apply all method right down to a really small enterprise. Proper. We have additionally had individuals who we have interviewed just lately. Give the total duty of the analysis of the writing of the modifying of the formatting, of the publishing of every part to form of one particular person and allow them to be autonomous.
What do you suppose is is the higher strategy? Is there a greater strategy?
Alexis: I feel they’ll each work and there execs and cons to every as you scale although, you need to have extra specialised roles. So like for the best life Within the 12 months earlier than I offered it even might, a few years earlier than I offered it, I had a managing editor who wasn’t, you recognize, everybody says, while you say editor an editor, is not simply accountable for modifying, even at a giant publication, they’re most likely accountable for like thought, technology managing a crew of freelancers, managing the content material calendar.
In order that they’re organizing a number of issues along with like really modifying the content material. I feel at a smaller website, it is smart to have a managing editor who might do all these issues and may put the posts into WordPress for you. They’ll create the publication for you and ship that out. They’ll make certain issues are shared throughout social.
So I feel it is smart when you may have a smaller website to have one one who’s accountable for a number of these issues, partly as a result of initially, they, they know what’s, they know if they’ve a giant image view of the complete website, they could consider different alternatives that they would not have considered.
In the event that they’re solely engaged on like one little piece of. After which secondly, it is simply your folks so that you can handle as a result of the extra folks you add, the extra it’s important to handle. So after they obtained acquired, we have now 11 freelancers and like most likely S possibly six of them, or seven of them are writers. After which we have now an editor and a designer.
And after I’m calling somebody, I am calling a advertising and marketing coordinator who. One in every of her targets is to place all of the posts into WordPress. So my choice, like when you begin getting previous a sure measurement is to have somebody who’s not a reporter, put the stuff into WordPress, like do all the form of TDS, ensuring every part is true within the backend earlier than you publish.
And there is two causes for that. One is he says it is cheaper. Prefer it’s less expensive to have somebody do it. Who, whose job that’s then have a reporter who’s skilled in enterprise or no matter, writing there, they are often costly, you recognize? So if you will get somebody to cheaper to do it and secondly, it is letting the reporter or the author deal with what they’re actually good at and what they get pleasure from with the intention to hold them round longer as a result of in the event that they really feel like they’ve to spend so much of their time on admin work, They may not, you recognize, benefit from the function as a lot.
Jared: Yeah. It makes a number of sense. Yeah. What do you suppose had been like, what are the largest form of blockages or issues that come up while you’re placing collectively that type of construction? Like what are some issues folks must learn about or can keep away from on the outset that might save them a number of headache after they put collectively their, their workflow, if you’ll.
Alexis: The largest factor I feel is simply ensuring that every part’s out of your mind as a result of too many people do issues. We do not understand are a part of the method. Like we would do them ourselves, or we, after we break down our course of, we neglect about little items. And in order that makes it troublesome handy over to another person.
So I all the time say like, , I simply made a course of, for instance, for creating our publication for, they obtained acquired. Once you’re doing that, sit down there, sit down and write each bullet. Like actually each single factor you probably did. The place did you get the headline? How did you reformat it? The place did you get the picture from?
Like actually make a really detailed listing of what must occur for that to work. And I feel for those who drive your self to get all the steps out on the paper, then you definately’ll be extra doubtless to have the ability to go it off to another person. However too typically, it identical to sits in our personal mind. And that is why we have now bother handled.
Jared: Yeah, I can not. What number of occasions? Effectively, I will not communicate for you. You are fairly operationally minded. I battle operationally. I run really a advertising and marketing company myself, however I everyone inside my group will, will vehemently share about how operationally challenged I can get the main points and also you’re proper.
It all the time results in my head and I am like, did I not share that course of? That half actually really essential.
Alexis: You form of prepare your crew to love at this time. I advised him on the crew. I mentioned, you missed the step. And she or he mentioned, are you able to create a doc that walks via each step of this? And I form of thought we did not want it for that exact process. Trigger it was like a brief process and my mind, it was like apparent what to do, however she requested for a guidelines.
So like there you go. It is excellent. There’s even in, in WordPress, I do not know if it is nonetheless accessible. There was once a plugin that was like a guidelines you could possibly really put at the back of WordPress. That was it. It mentioned. It was a guidelines of all of the steps you needed to do for every, for every put up earlier than publishing.
So I discovered that useful as a result of particularly for somebody who’s new, they’ll really undergo the guidelines in WordPress and examine the issues off as they’re doing. And so they will not miss something. You are able to do it in WordPress. Actually. There was a plugin that lets the, pulls it proper into the backend. Oh my gosh, that
Jared: that might be that is that is that is a extremely good thought proper there.
You’ve got touched on it a few occasions. And once more, the dichotomy, I assume I am form of providing you with a few totally different sides of the coin right here, however SOP normal working procedures, you recognize the method for each article that will get written the method for the publishing you have constructed a number of these massive groups at scale.
How vital are these SOP and the way detailed do they have to be the satan’s advocate. And once more, I’ve, I’ve seen it over right here in our company is that you just give her, like, it looks as if a fantastic line, proper? You give a author, a 20 web page doc. I’ve to observe. It does not precisely empower them to essentially flourish as a author.
However for those who do not give sufficient particulars, then issues slip via the cracks or it is not as much as the par that you really want it the place’s the steadiness
Alexis: there. Yeah. The opposite arduous half is, particularly with a startup, they modify a lot. So that you may’ve given somebody a doc and then you definately understand the subsequent day it is already replace.
Trigger you modified one thing. I do not know if there’s a straightforward reply to love, the place’s the best steadiness, however most likely normally people who find themselves new, they need that stuff. So I feel it partly is dependent upon how briskly you are rising. If you happen to’re rising quick, you bought to have every part written down as a result of in any other case it will take perpetually to onboard anybody.
And for those who might simply hand somebody, all these stuff you put collectively, then you possibly can fold quite a bit sooner. That is how we did it on the penny hoarder, as a result of we had been rising actually quick, including lots of people. And it was as a result of we had created an amazing onboarding course of the place every part was written down for them and so they might overview a number of that on their very own.
It does not must be only a doc both. It might be a loom video that walks them via one thing. It might be, I’ve seen Nathan Barry at convert equipment talks about how they do for every new worker. They do an audio interview in regards to the individual, after which everybody can hearken to that in order that when a brand new individual is available in, they’ll hearken to audio interviews of different people who find themselves already on the crew to love, get to know folks with out having to have one million conferences.
So I feel there’s a number of other ways you are able to do it. It does not must all be.
Jared: That is level. That is a great way. So on the penny hoarder, what sort of stroll us via the way you scaled that out and you recognize, what sort of quantity you guys are producing the occasions that you just had been there?
Alexis: Cool, good query.
I imply, so Kyle Taylor, the founder, he actually had, even earlier than I began working with him in 2014, he had performed an amazing job rising, rising the model. I am attempting to suppose like, What the, I do not know what the amount was, nevertheless it was quite a bit
Jared: of, I’d think about that is form of what I used to be getting at. I am positive it was I am positive it was loopy.
It was a
Alexis: lot. And yeah, so I feel simply having, like, particularly as we added to folks, added folks into it, that was all the time a problem is like, while you continue to grow, a few of the techniques you had at first may not work that like after you have an even bigger crew. So understanding when to regulate these techniques at totally different factors.
So it was actually loopy.
Jared: So, and also you mentioned in 2019, you transitioned out of working with the penny hoarder and moved mainly again to a weblog or web site you had began by yourself. However the best life and once more, the best being w R I T E targeted on serving to writers. So w why, why the shift, why the transfer out of penny hoarder, this sort of ever altering tremendous huge model at that time and again into, into your individual your individual private.
Alexis: Yeah. I imply, it was actually enjoyable. I obtained to study quite a bit there and I feel the largest present was that I obtained to do a number of issues that I most likely would not have been in a position to do by myself as a result of we had been bootstrapped, however we did rather well. So there was some huge cash to place into, to take a position again into the corporate.
And that was actually the mindset of the founder too. So I obtained to study quite a bit at a a lot. Scale that I feel I’d’ve performed with my company earlier there’s just a few explanation why I made a decision to shift one is I simply missed that early constructing stage. Like I actually like the start while you create one thing from nothing.
And I missed that. , I had two children whereas I used to be on the penny hoarder. I had my first child proper now. Kyle acquired my firm. It was like three months later. So it was, it was a ridiculous few years. Generally the folks ask me questions on like, how did you do that? And that I am like, it was all a blur.
I wasn’t sleeping that a lot. I am not likely positive.
Jared: I actually cannot even reply that. I don’t know,
Alexis: however yeah, I used to be drained truthfully, and I felt like I wanted a break and it was, it was actually arduous to have two children underneath three and be in a demanding management function. I discovered. A variety of work. After which yeah, the third piece was simply location.
We had been at down in St. Pete. That is the place the relying motor relies. It is an amazing city. And we missed the mountains. So yeah, we determined to return. We moved earlier than Florida. We had lifted diesel. So we moved again as much as this space. We stay in West Virginia now in a, in a little bit in a little bit path city.
That is transition. Yeah, it is usually because we lived in each my husband and I lived in cities, like earlier than I moved right here perpetually, you recognize, so it was a transition, nevertheless it’s been so nice sooner or later as properly. So we actually, it was form of like a dream of ours ever since we obtained again. To each run our personal companies and have a number of time, freedom and autonomy over our days.
And that was actually vital throughout the pandemic, since we have now children. So, yeah, it was a possibility for us to lastly get to that place the place we might each be on our personal.
Jared: Yeah. It wasn’t only a profession shift. It was like a form of a life-style shift, the best way to shift every part. Okay. Good. And so, so you have form of rebooted this website that had been round since 2013, I imply, was it a really lively website while you began reinvesting time into it or was it, it was okay.
So it was a undertaking you’d all the time had an apart and also you simply determined to place all your power in direction of it, beginning in 2018.
Alexis: So, properly, I had, I began it in 2013 as a result of after we had been, after I was working the company, we’re working blogs for different companies. And we had techniques in place to try this. We had a big community of freelancers who’re contributing to those websites, and I simply realized, like, we’re doing it for all these different corporations.
We should always do it for ourselves into an asset that we are able to. Leverage over time. In order that’s how we began it. And sometimes I take advantage of it as a take a look at floor, even for the penny hoarder, or generally we would like, I needed to attempt a plugin. I’d attempt it on the best life and see the way it went after which we would roll it out to the cash order.
After which what was it? The penny hoarder. I had an editor who was working the positioning and doing an amazing job, however I actually was attempting to simply hold it working. I set it up. So it was simply making sufficient cash to cowl the prices and it saved rising. However I wasn’t doing something huge with it. I simply, I did not have the time.
And truthfully, I believed throughout these years I thought of shutting it down as a result of I did not have the band’s bandwidth, like one other mind area. And it simply felt undone to me. Prefer it’s an asset sitting there that might be doing one thing nice. So it was actually satisfying in some methods after I left the pending order to have the ability to look again at that once more.
And my aim was to consider, is that this one thing that I need to develop longterm? Like I put collectively a giant plan of like, how might I monetize this higher? What would it not seem like? And there have been so many alternatives, however what I spotted after I checked out it was, it simply felt prefer it felt prefer it was an individual that I used to be.
, 10 years in the past, like I used to be a freelancer and I used to be simply form of bored of it and I needed to attempt one thing new. So what I ended up doing was. Simply actually getting it in form or that 12 months to promote. And I labored quite a bit on the search site visitors, partly as a result of that was enjoyable. And I felt prefer it was an amazing private growth alternative for me.
I’ve all the time been concerned about a search and I did not actually get pleasure from it, however I discovered a lot about search from our search engine optimisation crew on the penny hoarder. And I needed to use a few of that to the best life. So I really did a number of these search work myself simply as I believed it was enjoyable. And I obtained to study by doing it.
Jared: I feel I stumbled upon a weblog put up. You really wrote. I, it appears to be like like a whole overview of every part that you just did to the best life over the course of, I it feels like possibly a couple of 12 months, it took you to do all this work. I imply, as a result of mainly
Alexis: you, I used to be working full-time, that is like, we had simply moved, we simply moved.
And we additionally moved once more throughout that point I had two little children. So it wasn’t like a full-time undertaking, nevertheless it was my solely mine. And in addition I used to be consulting throughout that point too. I used to be serving to. I used to be having some corporations develop writing groups. So it was form of a facet undertaking, however I actually, actually loved engaged on it.
There is a
Jared: reoccurring theme right here. You, you retain your self fairly busy. I do. Yeah. I imply it, as a result of, properly, first off I needed to simply give it a voice actually rapidly. Trigger I feel lots of people most likely listening. I will actually communicate for me. All of us or many people have a facet undertaking that is been gathering mud for awhile.
And so I’ve simply, I used to be fascinating to form of hear your technique of deciding to choose this undertaking again up and the way you had saved this undertaking alive when you had been doing, you recognize, your full time gig at any order. And after which we’ll get into a few of the stuff you did to essentially shake the mud off of it.
However yeah, it simply, I feel it speaks to lots of people, like a number of us have. Challenge that we have left to gather mud, or possibly we’re not as concerned about proper now. And we’re form of at the back of our heads. What can we do with it? Ought to we put power into it? Ought to we simply ditch it? Ought to we simply neglect about it or ought to we simply shut it down?
So I simply, I am glad you went into it and talked a bit about it.
Alexis: Yeah, I am really, I am attempting to have fewer of them now. Trigger I really feel like I must have one focus, particularly trigger my children are like most of my mind. So it is like, I solely have a sure a part of my mind left, so I am attempting to not take too many initiatives on, however they do inch their method within the facet
Jared: undertaking right here and there.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They appear to observe us entrepreneurs do not they shake them fully. So, let me simply kinda, possibly I will learn some notes I took from this text. And possibly it will refresh your reminiscence on a few of the issues that you just had been doing there as a result of it was just a few years in the past, nevertheless it appears to be like such as you had a couple of thousand articles at that time while you dove again in and also you, you ended up promoting this.
A 12 months or two later however you probably did this full actually form of search engine optimisation focus the place you went via and targeted on enhancing search engine optimisation on this. You, you really, you probably did say you solely spent form of some hours every month, however the outcomes, if I can simply listing them, is that you just, you had about 275,000 web page views a month in June of 2019, and you bought it as much as 460,000 web page views inside a 12 months.
By the top of 2020 that is 460,000 pages a month. So possibly we might simply speak via a few of the stuff you did there, as a result of that is a giant website to work with, clearly nowhere close to the scale of like a penny order, however a thousand articles is, is sufficient that it provides a number of complexity earlier than we dive into a few of the particulars, simply from a big vantage level.
How did you get your thoughts round finding out what, the place your areas of focus had been going to be and, and what you needed your targets to be for the undertaking?
Alexis: It appealed to me as a result of that content material was already on the positioning. So it is, it was simply, it felt like a lot low-hanging fruit, which I do know generally that is time period is like, has curious a number of baggage, however there’s a lot that might have been performed there with out even having to create new content material.
And we did do some new content material too, however I simply love the concept of like, it is all right here. It simply must be higher organized. And to me that identical to made sense in my ranger mind, you recognize I had a giant, enormous spreadsheet. I really, I employed an search engine optimisation individual to, to assist me with it who helped me determine, like, what ought to I do?
He did an amazing audit for us. And regardless that I like perceive search engine optimisation at a excessive stage, this is sort of a specialist who’s actually good at it. So he, he might counsel issues far past what I might provide you with by myself. And he helped me prioritize a little bit bit and provide you with a plan. And yeah, then I simply had a spreadsheet and I simply labored with.
Jared: So it appears to be like such as you did it. You probably did an audit you up to date improved outdated content material, revealed new content material. You deleted some content material.
Alexis: Let’s have a look at you. We had a ton of a ton of content material that was cannibalizing, proper. Began the positioning in 2013. I all the time at first, I feel we had been doing just a few tiny little issues for search engine optimisation.
Truthfully, the positioning all the time did properly in search as a result of it is like a little bit of an aged area. We had actually prime quality content material. We did properly within the writing area of interest, however as a result of we had identical to written tons of content material with out guaranteeing that they did not step on one another’s toes. There was a number of that within the audit, there was like, oh, your, your, these three posts are all attempting to rank for a similar key phrase.
Like how do you flip it into one put up and, and get all of that used to go to at least one place. So.
Jared: I used to be going to say canalization is mainly the place a number of articles are competing for a similar matters. And normally, virtually, all the time not. I am not gonna say all the time, however normally Google is not going to rank any of the articles excessive.
In the event that they’re all competing for a similar subject, they’re form of like, Hey, you determine which one you need us to rank after which, then we’ll, then we’ll consider it. What did you do about that? Did you simply delete a bunch of the, did you mix a bunch of the articles and just about undergo a course of of creating them into one huge article?
Or did you form of take a look at which one you preferred finest and simply hold that one at knockoff? The opposite one.
Alexis: No, a number of them, I mixed. After which I redirected the outdated one to the brand new one. So I will provide you with an amazing instance as a result of this was simple to recollect or perceive. We, yearly we did a put up at our, in December that was like X variety of finest presents for writers.
So just like the writers and we did that for like six years in a row and so they all ranked rather well. And in reality, there was a 12 months the place. , we would, we would generally earn like $10,000, simply should not that one put up in December. Trigger simply folks had been in search of that and they’d go to Amazon after which they purchase different issues over there, there.
And I simply realized like, oh, the outdated ones are all rating and we wish the brand new one to pop up. So what I ended up doing was as a substitute of getting like all these totally different doses, I made an inventory of like, oh, 101 or no matter, 65, nonetheless many, it was a for much longer posts of all the. Items, after which additionally made positive that they are all working.
Trigger like a few of the outdated ones, just like the hyperlinks weren’t working anymore. Yeah. After which I redirected all the outdated posts to the brand new one. So it form of helps ship a few of the hyperlink juice via to the brand new one.
I imply, it was tougher by then to make as a lot cash with the put up for lots of various causes, nevertheless it did rank, it was a prime spot by December. Wow.
Jared: It is a, yeah, it jogs my memory a pair corporations in the past we’d write a weblog put up on the finish of yearly, summarizing our prime weblog posts. And so I am questioning how a lot cannibalization we had after 10 years of doing the highest 10 weblog posts of the 12 months.
And I feel it was the identical title yearly that we wrote. So
Alexis: I feel the one factor that actually we did this a number of the penny hoarder, and I carried that over to every part I’ve performed since is. Updating outdated content material. Prefer it’s simply so vital as a result of it helps the reader as a result of it is nonetheless related and it helps you in Google search outcomes.
So all the time in search of methods to love, how will you enhance? Publish that you just already wrote, how will you enhance it? How will you make it higher? How will you have some cause to tag it as up to date?
Jared: Did you guys replace a number of content material at relying hoarder alongside together with your, your time with the best life? You up to date a number of content material.
Alexis: We did it wasn’t. I imply, I feel it is, I am positive it helps an search engine optimisation and the STL world, however we extra did it as a solution to be useful for the reader to ensure that every part was nonetheless.
Jared: So while you went and up to date outdated content material right here on the best life, what had been a few of the issues that you just had been, you had been doing?
Was it the identical strategy? Was it extra simply making the article extra present as a result of it had been old-fashioned or was it actually a extra search engine optimisation targeted to attempt to get this good content material to rank higher?
Alexis: So what I did was I regarded for posts that had alternatives, and generally these are ones that had been already doing.
Rather well on search, however typically they had been ones that like, they had been in just like the 4 or 5 place. And there have been so lots of them that might be within the primary place. So I checked out these and I, I checked out a pair various things. One is like, SEOs, did we do job with a key phrase? Like what key phrase is it all the time already rating for?
And the way can we optimize for that key phrase? As a result of a number of occasions we had written the posts for the. Like focus in thoughts, nevertheless it simply occurred to do properly for the key phrase that it was rating for. So how can we like lean into that and optimize for that key phrase. However then I additionally actually added to the content material.
So like a few of the posts, they weren’t that nice. Like a few of them are good, however a few of them actually might have been higher. So I there’s just a few various things. Generally I’d. I imply, I normally I assign this to somebody, so like, I would have a author do that. Generally I went again to the unique author and mentioned, are you able to add X, Y, and Z?
Are you able to interview somebody and put their story in? Like, simply make it extra attention-grabbing. What different examples can we. And in some instances I really assigned a very new put up and simply rewrote the put up.
Jared: And I revealed a very new put up on prime of
Alexis: it, which I do not know if that is even kosher in search engine optimisation world, nevertheless it ended up being a greater prefer it was, it was as a result of I would like it to be extra prime quality posts and I need to use a unique author and it is normally simpler for a author to simply begin from scratch and have to start out with one thing that is.
Jared: It is it is it may be in case you are an search engine optimisation individual, proper? If such as you contemplate your self to be actually targeted on writing content material, that is search engine optimisation, optimized, seasoned phrase optimized twice, however you get what I am saying. It may be, it may be troublesome generally to take a step again and take a look at your article and say, , is that this actually really pretty much as good because it might be?
As a result of you possibly can examine the field with issues like key phrase density and article construction, and, you recognize, you are able to do all of the analysis on how lengthy your article ought to be, however generally it may be actually useful to simply step again and take that hat off and take a look at how, how useful is the article? How useful are the pictures, how useful does it circulation?
So it sounds such as you, you, you, you had been ready to try this fairly properly.
Alexis: Yeah. I imply, I all the time, with all of the writers that I’ve educated, all of us. Say, write an amazing article first after which we optimize it. And sure, generally there’s like a key phrase or a subject. We, and we hold it in thoughts as we’re writing. However the, the article, like, I feel too many individuals.
SCO has gotten such a foul rap as a result of we’re considering of it as like actually boring and it is complete BS. Trigger like as a narrative that is search engine optimisation optimized. It may be simply as attention-grabbing as, as the rest. It is simply, we have now to consider that first. Like that ought to be your precedence is like make an amazing article for the best reader.
It is gotta be attention-grabbing for those who boring. After which how do you layer search engine optimisation in as a part of that?
Jared: How huge of a deal was publishing the brand new content material for the expansion versus updating. The outdated content material fixing the outdated content material fixing cannibalization. Like I am simply curious. Trigger you bought simply shy of 80% progress by way of search site visitors in that 12 months and a half you had been engaged on the positioning was most of it attributed to the, to the brand new content material or was most of it extra attributed to updating the outdated
Alexis: content material?
Yeah. Yeah. Most of it was updating the outdated content material and let’s fixing these cannibalization is cannibalization points. There was just a few posts that we wrote that had been new, that did rather well, that had been like form of apparent gaps that We on posts that we did not have. And, you recognize, there was locations to hyperlink to them all through the positioning, which was useful, however the huge.
If you happen to had an 80, 20 simply redoing the outdated content material was the largest
Jared: one. Effectively, I will embody a hyperlink to this text you wrote. Trigger it is a actually good article. If I am, if any person has a undertaking, you could mud off and know the place to start out, it is a actually good one. And it is a actually easy one. Such as you did not, you did not make it you recognize, overwhelming.
However it’s a giant subject. So that you made it quite simple, most likely your, your journalism background, in a position to make that significantly better. If one in every of us obtained ahold of that and tried to put in writing a, be a 35 web page SOP ultimately.
Alexis: Effectively, it is not although. It is like useful for me as a result of now if I’ve to try this once more subsequent 12 months, I simply going to return to, what did I do?
And like, what, how did I give it some thought then? Trigger it is, it is easy to neglect that stuff. So I like having it written down for. Yeah. You talked
Jared: about at first about how this documentation course of you do is, is extra than simply form of recording your story, nevertheless it’s one thing you possibly can look again on and proceed to study from down the street.
Alexis: Yeah. I simply really revealed the put up about how, as a result of they obtained acquired. We had been in a position to get a thousand subscribers earlier than we launched the web site and I, and that was a number of work. It was actually scrappy. And I wrote a put up, like, how did we get a thousand subscribers? It was only a touchdown web page earlier than the positioning went stay.
And I, on the finish I learn the put up and what. It is a little bit bit boring. I did not do prefer it wasn’t my finest put up ever. Ought to I publish this? Then I believed, you recognize what, the subsequent time it’s important to begin from scratch, you are going to need your listing of how you probably did it. So I revealed that and principally for me, so I can return and say, okay, what are the, what had been the ten issues I did?
And I can do this once more. Oh,
Jared: nice. That’s actually nice. I like that strategy. We do not do this stuff. So you find yourself promoting the you find yourself promoting the best life. How lengthy did you, did you promote that? I feel you had talked about possibly a couple of 12 months in the past or so in the past, and now we’re on to, oh, sorry, go forward.
Alexis: Yeah, it was in 2020. Yep. Okay.
Jared: Okay. And so now we’re on Tuesday. Bought a name.
Alexis: We arrange 20, 21.
Jared: About what 12 months is it? 20, 22 this 12 months,
the final couple of years. It is all been about one. That was all been about the identical 12 months. If you happen to ask me the final couple of years, so sorry. However yeah, so Ron, did they obtained purchase, which by the way in which, I feel is the. Idea. I’m. I caught wind of it in some way earlier than we obtained linked for this interview. So good job on the advertising and marketing, no matter it was.
I do not bear in mind the place it was, however man, I’m a sucker for a enjoyable acquisition story as I am positive. So many individuals are like, what is the what is the Genesis behind this concept and why are you placing your efforts into this?
Alexis: Actually, it got here out of a ache level that I had myself as a result of I went via this sort of sale and it did not really feel like there have been a number of sources geared in direction of somebody like me.
Like for those who’re having, for those who’re promoting a website for mid six figures, the place do you get data? The place do you get professionals that can assist you? And I discovered that it wasn’t like, I did not know the place to look. , it was arduous to seek out these sources, even by way of. Like, you recognize, years in the past after I offered my first firm, for those who promote a giant firm, you will get comps like say actual property comps.
Such as you promote your own home, proper. You go searching like within the neighborhood, what did all the homes promote for close to you? And you may’t do this proper now for a small firm. And I needed that for myself. Like I needed to go say, Hey, I am about to promote a content material firm. Present me 10 content material corporations which have offered within the final two years for underneath one million {dollars}.
So that is the form of factor that we need to construct. These are the sorts of sources we need to construct this, that. Different founders who’re going via this for the primary time they want sources. They want knowledge factors and so they simply want tales that people who find themselves doing this like they’re, as a result of for those who watch the media, you’ll suppose that everybody who begins a startup, each entrepreneur is promoting the enterprise on the finish for $200 million or a billion {dollars}.
And the fact is for many of us, it is simply way more attainable and lifelike and even satisfying to construct up in direction of a six or seven or a low eight determine.
Jared: You carry up such level. It may be so demoralizing as somebody, as a small enterprise proprietor or simply, I’ll even say small enterprise. I will simply say an entrepreneur who began one thing.
It may be so demoralizing to learn these books, you recognize, the Airbnb story to learn these articles and you are like, what did I do improper? And it is, after some time, I’ve discovered to take a step again and go, I do not know, you are in enterprise and also you’re paying your payments. Such as you did not do something improper. These are simply the unicorn tales.
There. Aren’t a number of. , on a regular basis tales of success, people who find themselves nonetheless making life-changing revenue on enterprise gross sales and enterprise acquisitions, however not those that possibly make the headlines with the information media. It is such a
Alexis: good level. Yeah. This does not communicate to me. That form of story. Like additionally, I do not need to work myself into the bottom anymore.
Like I need to work 30 hours every week. I need to, I need to hike generally on a Tuesday. I am just like the hustle and grind startup tradition. I’ve form of tried it and I loved it for some time, however I do not need to do it anymore. And I feel there’s a lot of other ways to construct a startup. And we solely deal with that one Silicon valley method.
Like it’s important to elevate a ton of cash, it’s important to rent tremendous quick and there are different methods to get to an amazing.
Jared: Who’s the audience for they, for, they obtained acquired, like who’s form of the avatar for that, the person who you suppose the content material will, will swimsuit
Alexis: finest. Effectively, there’s two, the primary is any entrepreneur, who’s constructing one thing.
, for many people, you do not even must be on the level the place you’d prefer to promote your corporation as a result of we’re protecting a number of like, how did this individual develop their enterprise as properly? So anybody who’s considering, fascinated by. Rising and enterprise that they could finally need to promote. And I am hoping we are able to catch folks too, who’re at that SailPoint who’re like, I feel I need to promote, how do I do it?
And we may give them these sources. I’ve additionally discovered, excuse me, it has been it is selecting up with a number of the M and a professionals. So brokerages is brokerages and like M and a corporations. And, you recognize, there’s, there’s all these professionals, legal professionals and monetary advisors who had been. On this ecosystem and would like to have knowledge on small, smaller.
I say smaller trigger like for many individuals, a seven determine gross sales life-changing, however prefer it’s nonetheless smaller than, you recognize, Usually. So I feel for these folks as properly, gaining access to a few of this knowledge can be actually useful for his or her work.
Jared: Yeah. It ties in properly. I imply, we had Joe valley on a few months in the past and he wrote a guide referred to as the, the hope I get it proper.
The exit preneurs playbook. And he talked about methods to promote your corporation, how to consider a sale while you’re not even fascinated by a sale. So the best way to construction your corporation in a method that’s. Could possibly be offered down the street and I am most likely horribly paraphrasing a number of the important thing stuff you mentioned, nevertheless it was.
It was a well-received interview and folks actually loved it. And I, I, I am listening to a number of flashbacks to a few of the issues he was saying within the work you are speaking about having these tales and virtually like a playbook for those who they’ll learn when persons are on the level of sale, however possibly not simply that, however how they grew.
And you may virtually. Backfill or transfer again to the stage you are at with your corporation based mostly on these tales and the place persons are after they’re sharing in your, in your web site?
Alexis: No. Yeah, for positive. We, even, even like, we simply revealed a narrative about the best way to negotiate an earn-out, like, how do you provoke, negotiate an earn out that has favorable phrases for you as the vendor.
So I feel there’s quite a bit that folks need assistance with and it is, it is arduous to know the place to get the knowledge. Yeah.
Jared: Once I offered my first web site was a really small sale. , mid 5 figures. I I, there have been so many issues I simply did not perceive. It was confused by one in every of them, for instance, is I did not know that they had been fielding questions from potential patrons.
And I believed that it was simply the folks on the brokerage asking me the identical questions time and again. And so I saved responding. Like I already despatched you this final week. I do not, I do not perceive. However right here. No thought what is going on on. So there’s simply a lot confusion round what must go collectively and to creating a an organization, a web site an asset on the market.
What what are the very best methods for folks to, to observe alongside? You talked about your publication. I imply, is that the very best place for blue it is signed up for that to get updates or, or w you recognize what, what is the, what is the, what is the content material distribution schedule that you’ve for that.
Alexis: Yeah, they obtained acquired.com/publication.
You possibly can join our publication. Proper now we’re sending out a publication as soon as every week on Tuesdays. Like we actually, we simply launched a website every week in the past, so I used to be engaged on for about six months earlier than we really launched. Yeah, so we’re taking pictures for a as soon as every week publication for the time being and some posts every week.
We even have a podcast popping out in March then. Sure, that’ll be enjoyable. That was an amazing studying alternative for me. Trigger I’ve by no means performed a podcast earlier than I oversee. A variety of content material groups, various kinds of multimedia. I obtained to study quite a bit via that. So it has been, it has been actually enjoyable. It is a it is the narrative type podcast, which suggests it is, it is extremely produced.
So it tells a narrative form of like. I am attempting to consider it or the NPR has the how I, how
Jared: it constructed. Yep. I do know. It is humorous. I hoped you bear in mind the title, trigger I do know precisely what you are speaking about and I can not actually title on it.
Alexis: I did not use it. It is how I constructed it as a result of there’s one other podcast how I constructed this, that I listened to as properly generally.
Jared: Don’t fret, folks within the feedback will tell us.
Alexis: It is a type of two. However yeah, it is so it is extremely produced and it tells a narrative of an entrepreneurial who’s who’s constructed and offered.
Jared: I’d be remiss if I did not at the very least ask you on this podcast, what are your progress methods for they obtained acquired.
How are you planning on rising the positioning and and, and, you recognize, making it one thing that you recognize, within the long-term at the very least is what you are hoping.
Alexis: Effectively, our primary metric is actually publication subscribers. So I feel one solution to make nice progress is to be actually clear on like, what’s your metric?
And I imply, for many corporations, finally it is it is income ultimately, and that would be the case for us to finally, however for the time being, our primary metric is e-mail subscribers. So I feel being actually clear, like that is what we’re going after has been helped. However we will lean into it. We have now a lot of totally different concepts, however we’ll most likely lean into content material advertising and marketing fairly a bit as a result of we have already got a number of writers on our crew.
That is what I get pleasure from. That is what I am good at. We’re going to roll out within the subsequent couple of months, a referral program for the e-mail publication. So we will use spark loop to supply incentives for individuals who share the publication with their buddies and usher in new subscribers. In order that’s one thing to be careful.
Jared: I like that you’ve it clearly outlined what your quantity, one form of metric of success is out of the gate. That is actually sensible. I feel a number of us stumbled via these initiatives earlier than we understand precisely what the aim is. In order that’s an amazing, nice little tidbit there. Like I mentioned, I feel we might’ve crammed hours upon hours needed to gloss over.
Is there something I missed? There’s something vital that I, that I did gloss over that, that, that possibly is value doubling down on or something that we did not speak about that you just suppose is vital?
Alexis: Not likely. I feel in order that they obtained acquired as an amazing place to maintain up with us through the publication. However I additionally write on my private weblog nonetheless.
So, and it is normally stuff like this, like we had been speaking about, it is like how we did X or Y. So it mentioned Alexis grant.com. If anybody desires to get that form of data, I do not publish recurrently. It is simply no matter I write one thing, I will ship it out to them.
Jared: Excellent. Okay. Effectively that offers folks a number of methods to maintain updated with you.
I’ll make certain we get within the present notes that that define that you just did, of the way you grew the work the best life. And once more, man, it is, it is actually nice to simply hear your mindset on the, on the penny hoarder progress as properly out of your time there. And the way you operationally organized every part, as a result of it looks as if such a giant undertaking.
So I am actually glad that you just obtained to share a number of these particulars with us.
Alexis: It is enjoyable. I like these things. So thanks for having me.
Jared: Yeah, thanks a lot for coming by and till we speak subsequent time, we’ll see you quickly. All proper. Once more, a giant, due to for sponsoring at this time’s podcast. Atreus is an all-in-one search engine optimisation device set.
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